Ban Appeal Options

[MrSpooks]

Hi,

I was banned a few days ago from your 64 player server. I think I, and a few others TKd an admin. I was just goofing around at the end of a losing match. Never had a problem on the server before, never intentionally TKed an admin before. In fact this is the first time I've been banned on Chivalry and I've been playing for years.

I apologise if I pissed the guy off, and I won't do it again. But a warning would be have been nice before the insta-ban. Either way, I'm sorry and I'd like to play with you guys again.

Hope there isn't any hard feelings.

Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Mrspooks1

Thanks,
Karl

[Bucket]

But a warning would be have been nice before the insta-ban.

It is being displayed when you join the server. There is probably more to the story than you just (accidentally) teamkilling an admin, if we admins had to ban people who teamkill on accident the server would unpopulated.

[DARwin]

It was me who banned you. The ban stays (same goes for the other two guys of the group who also got banned after they hunted me down) kthxbye

[Scaramouche the ...]

A few crystalline words

[MrSpooks]

Hi,

I never said it was an accident. I did intentionally TK. Sorry if I came across as a dick there.

I was goofing about, and being a complete fucking idiot. It was wrong. I must stress that I didn't hunt you down by the way, It was entirely random walking around the spawn and stabbing people. The others were stabbing each other too I think.

I'm holding my hands up here, I am totally in the wrong and I am really sorry I TK'd you Darwin. But the fact is your server is a great server and it's the server I play on the most when I play chivalry, because I really like the atmosphere and the challenge. (SM are really quite good). So I ask for your good graces Darwin, could I please come back. It may not seem important to you, but it is for me. Years of playing on your server is down the toilet because I was an idiot for two minutes and I am really angry with myself because of it. I really want to play on your server again, I promise I will -not- do it again. Lesson is thoroughly learned.

I do hope you reconsider.

All the best,
Karl

Edit:

I'd like to add, I've seen the warning message every time I've joined the SM server. I know the rules, and I haven't broken them for many years until now. I don't contest the reasoning for my ban. I just want a second chance, based on my clean past record, to win back trust and make amends.

[Spath]

Just came by and saw this...

Unban this guy and give him a second chance ffs!

[Bucket]

I'd like to add, I've seen the warning message every time I've joined the SM server. I know the rules, and I haven't broken them for many years until now.

Then you should've known better, however I believe in second chances but I do not know what happend so this is up to DARwin.

Good luck.

[MrSpooks]

Just came by and saw this...

Unban this guy and give him a second chance ffs!

Thanks for your support!

Then you should've known better, however I believe in second chances but I do not know what happend so this is up to DARwin.

Good luck.

Exactly, I should have. Especially since I obeyed the rules until now. I don't know why I did it, I was bored and frustrated perhaps. What I do know is I regret it. Bucket, could you let me know if DARwin has seen this? I don't know if I'm being ignored or if he is simply inactive on the forums.

Thank you.

[HackedPenguin]

It doesn't make difference to your situation whether Darwin has seen it and/or ignores you. He has spoken his mind about the ban, and in case he chooses not to return to the topic, you know his decision was not to unban. And if he does return and responds by saying the ban will stay, that wont make any difference either. The only way the situation changes for you is when Darwin says the ban will be lifted, and you will know it because he will post it here.

[MrSpooks]

It doesn't make difference to your situation whether Darwin has seen it and/or ignores you. He has spoken his mind about the ban, and in case he chooses not to return to the topic, you know his decision was not to unban. And if he does return and responds by saying the ban will stay, that wont make any difference either. The only way the situation changes for you is when Darwin says the ban will be lifted, and you will know it because he will post it here.

I only ask because I'd like to know if he is active on the forums or not, if he is inactive then it explains the lack of response from him. Frankly, if he is active and is just ignoring the appeal then I'm worried that my appeal is not being fairly considered. Darwin gave no reason why he will not lift the ban, even Bucket said he didn't know what happened. There are people in this appeal forum that have committed much worse offences than I like abhorrent racism, and have even abused staff, and they have been given much more fleshed out and well worded responses, with screenshots and reasoning for their bans.

I've been given 'the ban stays' 'kthxbye', without any address to my sincere apology, or my pledge to make amends and try to rebuild trust. I've been polite, well-mannered and patient (This thread has been open for nearly a week now). I'd just like my appeal to be considered fairly with what I have said in mind. What is the point of punishment if not to reform people? If the ban isn't considered and lifted then I can't show that I am actually a nice person who can be trusted to play on SM servers without breaking the rules.

[Bucket]

Just because I don't know what happend doesn't mean the ban isn't justified nor is it my business to question DARwin about his decision. I trust my fellow admins in their decisions and (some) trust mine Regarding his (in)activity I don't know and I really don't care. Pretty sure he's still active and if he wanted to reply he would've or might do this later.

At the end of the day is it still his decision if the ban will remain or not, although he said it will remain. No other admin is allowed without the permission and confirmation from the admin who issued the ban to undo the given ban.

However if you truly feel you're being treated unfairly please provide (valid) reasons on why you feel this way other than his lack of replies and comparing your own appeal to others.

@DARwin bby pls respond <--- (click me for the reference.)

[MrSpooks]

Just because I don't know what happend doesn't mean the ban isn't justified nor is it my business to question DARwin about his decision.

I do not question this?

However if you truly feel you're being treated unfairly please provide (valid) reasons on why you feel this way other than his lack of replies and comparing your own appeal to others.

How are comparisons between my appeal and others, and the decorum of responses not valid reasons? Besides I am not going to make a complaint yet, I only said I was worried because there has been no response from Darwin since his original post. But that could be for any number of reasons, may be Darwin is just busy getting on with life and that is fine.


I'll continue to be patient and wait. But I reiterate that I am still really sorry for my actions and stupidity and I request a second chance to make amends and be a better player.

[Bucket]

I do not question this?

Darwin gave no reason why he will not lift the ban, even Bucket said he didn't know what happened.

Well you better not question me m8 I'll fukn ban u, jokes aside this made me think otherwise, I suppose I misunderstood you, so apologies.

How are comparisons between my appeal and others, and the decorum of responses not valid reasons?

Mainly people those bans were applied by different admins and (some) circumstances were different. Our admin team is fairly big-ish in size and each admin handles things differently. To give you an example from a past experience I personally do not really issue bans to people who insult me, it doesn't affect me what some random twat on the internet thinks/says about me, if it really bothers me I will just mute the person. Should I end up banning this person it is usually because (s)he realised I muted him/her and decided the best course of action is to teamkill me or whatever other reason.

But I can understand why you see your stated reasons as valid ones.

Maybe if you whip your dick out for Harambe (rip) DARwin might have a change of heart. (Please note that this may or may not be true, most likely it isn't true)

[MrSpooks]

Maybe if you whip your dick out for Harambe (rip) DARwin might have a change of heart. (Please note that this may or may not be true, most likely it isn't true)

4ever in my heart

Dick whipping may be worth a shot, depends what Darwin prefers.

[Bucket]

[MrSpooks]

Hey all,

I got back from Edinburgh today and was saddened to see nothing has moved forward with my appeal. I'd rather not accept the finality of DArwin's earlier brief judgement, but if I am to accept it then I'm seriously considering making a complaint. Bucket, and other admins have been proactive into responding to my appeal and I'd like to thank them for it, you're all cool, the complaint is not addressed to yourselves but to DArwin, as I don't believe my appeal was fairly considered.

If I have to, I can write an extensive list of reasons as to why I believe I am not being fairly considered by the admin in the morning.

Thank you and all the best,
Karl

[HackedPenguin]

If I may. I believe Darwin has said his final words, the ban is staying.

Correct me of course if I'm wrong, Darwin.

[MrSpooks]

You might be wondering why I’ve literally written a short essay; well it’s because I’ve never been banned from anything before. I know I can’t prove that to you, but I’m being honest. This is why I made the appeal, because while I know it’s just a game it still reflects badly on me. I want to apologise and make amends. I want to correct my mistakes. I can’t do that while banned, so buckle down because below are the problems I have with my permanent ban.

1. What happened?

For every ones benefit I’ll reiterate what happened before I was banned. The map we were playing on was Outpost, we were at the final stage at the match and I was playing on Agatha. The match was not going well, I had recently returned to playing the game and I was playing really poorly. Towards the end of the match, some others and I began goofing around at the spawn. We were stabbing each other and random players. I saw what appeared to be an AFK Man-At-Arms standing outside the spawn and I TKed him with a short sword. Why did I do this? Why do people do stupid things? Usually, it is for no good reason. I remember being quite bored and frustrated and at the time I found the goofing about amusing. About roughly a minute before the end of the match and just after I TKed the MAA that turned out to be Darwin, (I didn’t even know it was an admin until it popped up in the scrolling text) I was immediately banned.

2. The Warning, (or lack thereof).

A verbal warning is commonly used on gaming servers; it’s fine for sneaky monkeys not to have one. However I was initially shocked after the ban that it came without any warning or words from the admin.

If Darwin had given me a chance to apologise even in-game with a verbal warning then I would of stopped what I was doing and apologised, and we would not be here.

As Bucket pointed out earlier in the thread, a verbal warning is not necessarily needed as the player is informed of the rules on the message you receive upon entering the server. There is a problem with the M.O.T.D warning; only racism is specific with a permanent ban. Intentional TKing is a rule but it is vague and unspecific about the cost of breaking such a rule. This opens the door to arbitrary bans, which in some cases, as seen on this appeal forum, may be temporary or in my case totally permanent after a single offense. The issue is not that the rules aren’t clear, the punishment is not clear.

I had to go hunting within the SM policies PDF to find the exact ruling on intentional TKing, which states; “a player intentionally TK’s they may be warned, kicked or banned.” (2. Server Rules). I was not warned, I was not kicked; I was immediately banned outright, permanently. Sure, this could be justified as Darwin’s choice of punishment but as punishment for a first offense, without a chance to make amends or any verbal warning, I would say a permanent ban is heavy handed and off-the-cuff, especially when a temporary ban is also an option.

3. Not very pleasant, or professional admin conduct.

I realise this is the Internet and sneaky monkeys isn’t a professional body. It is a clan of gamers who play a game. However by running a server for free you are essentially running a service. Your service is monitored by admins who are expected to follow a set of rules, have the power to ban and make decisions; therefore you have an element of governance and punishment. You have this appeal forum for appeals to said punishment. So when I wrote an appeal I was expecting at least the base level of professional behaviour from the Sneaky Monkeys team. I have seen the admins be professional and polite! I have seen them be so even in the face of abuse from other banned individuals and rise above the casual trolling!

However I have not been afforded the same response towards racists and trolls, my only response was:

The ban stays (same goes for the other two guys of the group who also got banned after they hunted me down) kthxbye

This is neither a constructive or professional response as seen from other admins. It does not give any valid reasoning for my ban, nor does it inform other admins of what actually happened so they’re unable to pass judgement. ‘kthxbye’ is actually just rude, now I didn’t come here expecting sunshine and roses and I am open to banter, but when I’m looking for a valid response from the admin who banned me I expected more. I wouldn’t treat Darwin or any other staff members like this, so I do not want to be treated like that back.

“If you are acting as admin, please try to keep personal abuse to a minimum
and keep matters as fair and mature as possible when performing admin
duties.” -6. General Admin, SM Policies.

4. Genuine apology not considered.

I’ve made several apologies in this thread, I’ve admitted my guilt and have given reasoning as to why Darwin, (or the team), should accept me back. I’ll reiterate them here:

• I have learnt my lesson; I know that I was being foolish and not fair person to play with and for that I am sorry.

• I want to prove to you that I am a fair person to play with. I can’t do that while banned.

• I want to rebuild trust. I don’t enjoy hostility and I detest the culture of abuse on the Internet, I want to be friendly with the admins and set an example to players.

• I believe in second chances. Forgiveness is one of the best human traits. I don’t want to sound pious, but when someone genuinely wants to make amends for what they did then I would let him or her do that.

Because the team must refer to Darwin as per the rules my apologies or my appeals, to my knowledge, have not been adequately considered, as Darwin is nowhere to be seen in this thread. If he can respond to this post stating his side of what happened and why he thinks that a permanent ban is justified for this case then I might let the issue go and move on. In the meantime Darwin hasn’t and I must take ‘kthxbye’ as my response. Therefore I am going to continue this so long as the thread remains open and my questions, and issues remain unanswered.

If you got to the bottom of this, I thank you for your time.
All the best,
Karl

[surprise_FIN]

“a player intentionally TK’s they may be warned, kicked or banned.”

Did you read section "may be", it means that admin can decide to take only one action of his/her choice on those three and it doesn't force them to take multiple actions.

[MrSpooks]

“a player intentionally TK’s they may be warned, kicked or banned.”

Did you read section "may be", it means that admin can decide to take only one action of his/her choice on those three and it doesn't force them to take multiple actions.

Yes I did read that;

Sure, this could be justified as Darwin’s choice of punishment but as punishment for a first offense, without a chance to make amends or any verbal warning, I would say a permanent ban is heavy handed and off-the-cuff, especially when a temporary ban is also an option.